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This Week in Anime - Is OEL Manga Really Manga?


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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2256
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:40 pm Reply with quote
I must be secretly psychic, or just weirdly ahead of the curve, because I was *just* thinking about how much I missed Rising Stars of Manga (terrible contracts aside) and all the fun variety that showcased. I hope Viz’s program can do the same thing for a new generation!
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14813
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:43 pm Reply with quote
There's also web originals like Megatokyo that later got published in Japan by Kodansha
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Doubleclouder



Joined: 07 Jan 2024
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:58 pm Reply with quote
In my experience this topic only seems to happen when people want validation for liking something that isn't Japanese because they view comics as lesser than manga. Or they want the ability to label a comic as a manga for some other reason like that one guy who keeps advertising his comic as the first black lead in a shonen manga since there's been plenty of black lead characters in American comic books already.
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Great Rumbler



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 331
Location: Oklahoma
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:27 pm Reply with quote
This feels like the kind of topic that would have caused heated arguments 20-25 years ago, back in the earlier days of anime/manga. But these days people are fall less likely to care about the difference, if any really exists.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5423
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Doubleclouder wrote:
In my experience this topic only seems to happen when people want validation for liking something that isn't Japanese because they view comics as lesser than manga.
They used to name them "graphic novels" to escape the negative stigma of the term "Comic Book".
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Gem-Bug



Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 1257
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 3:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I see someone was less than impressed with this week's new Shonen Jump series.
Quote:
Haha, even if it's a deliberate deconstruction of the mico-genre, the brand new Yokai Buster Murakami series is now the umpteenth series to appear in the publication that can be boiled down to "High Schoolers vs Japanese Folklore." All I'm saying is that maybe people should focus more on telling the story they want to tell and less on being a part of a medium that feels more derivative than ever at its top level.


Not to mention that it was basically traded for Dear Anemone, a darker sci-fi horror series that seemed like it was going somewhere and felt different than a lot of other currently running WSJ series. Too different, I guess. Confused
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 1043
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 3:54 pm Reply with quote
I have nothing against OEM, except when it's laid-out to be read right-to-left. That is pure weeb BS.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6311
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:45 pm Reply with quote
This particular thread and topic brings back memories of me getting involved with OEL manga jumping the shark, if anyone was around in 2007/2008 you probably remember that ANN thread back in the day (I was still a new anime/manga fan back then).

But anyway, a lot has changed like Enurtol mentioned MegaTokyo later getting a Japanese translation. Also, we've seen Scott Pilgrim getting a anime adaptation. Hell even Korean webtoons and American comic book getting anime adaptation today, so should OEL manga be still considered as manga. Well, if you want to consider Shotaro Ishinomori's Zelda: A link to the past OEL manga as a manga (yes, it's a OEL manga given it was originally published in the US before it got translated and released into Japanese), then I wouldn't hold it against you. Let me quote Zelda Wikia section entry:

Zelda Fandom Wikia wrote:
Although often considered to be a manga, the comic was originally published in English in America by Nintendo Power. By modern day standards, it can be considered to be an original English-language manga, although that term did not exist when the comic was originally published. A Japanese edition was later released retaining the left-to-right formatting of the original American edition. In the Japanese edition, the text is oriented horizontally in a left-to-right format as well and the original sound effects are left untranslated.

The comic was re-released on May 5, 2015, compiled into a single volume and published by VIZ Media.


Also, what about the works of Eldo Yoshimitzu? They would be considered as manga by my eyes, but the problem is that both Gamma Draconis, and Ryuko they weren't published in Japan first, they were published in Europe before it got translated into English, and later "translated" into Japanese. The fact that it was published in Europe before it got a Japanese release kind of disqualify it from being recognized as a manga on sites like MAL, and Anilist. I'm not making this up, go search Ryuko or Gamma Draconis on MAL and Anilist and they're not even on their database despite being a manga (in black & white, and read from right to left like any manga). I want to remind you that MAL and Anilist has manhwa/webtoons, and manhua on their database but not Ryuko and Gamma Draconis from Eldo Yoshimizu.

So if anyone on here argue that OEL manga is not manga, so what does that make Eldo Yoshimizu's works? Manga, or not (because his works are not on MAL and Anilist database despite the fact that both of them read like a manga and the same MAL and Anilist also has Manhwa/webtoons and manhua in their database)?

Also, kudo for ANN staff for using Adam Warren's Dirty Pair. I wonder if those ever receive Japanese translation. I asked because on another thread, I brought up that IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog comic book got translated into Japanese in 2020 and it was so highly regarded in Japan, it caused Vol 1 of the Japanese version to get re-printed due to high demand in Japan. Japan is usually where foreign comic don't sell so well and yet IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog comic was able to succeed everyone's expectation.

It makes me wonder why did IDW's Sonic did so well in Japan when other comic book didn't managed to break into the Japanese mainstream market. IDW's Sonic is not the only American comic book that got a Japanese translation, I found out that IDW's Transformers comic have received Japanese translation too. I'm not sure about IDW's Godzilla. I wonder if any of the American/western comic book based on Japanese IPs/properties ever got translated into Japanese I mean did any of Udon's Street Fighter comic receive a Japanese translation & release over there. Does that include Udon's Darkstalkers comic series?

I really like to know if any western comic based on Japanese properties/IPs ever got translated into Japanese other then IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog.
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Rodem



Joined: 22 Feb 2021
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 5:44 pm Reply with quote
I stopped caring about this debate after living in Japan for a bit and realizing “manga” and “comics” are essentially considered the same exact thing over there. (The only difference to note is that “comics” refers to the complied volumes and is not used to describe individual chapters.)
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6311
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:16 pm Reply with quote
Rodem wrote:
I stopped caring about this debate after living in Japan for a bit and realizing “manga” and “comics” are essentially considered the same exact thing over there. (The only difference to note is that “comics” refers to the complied volumes and is not used to describe individual chapters.)


Unfortunately, the "OEL manga are or are not manga" was a hot and highly debated topic back then in mid 2000's to mid 2010's (trust me I was that knee deep in it, it can get fiercely debated to the point of trading insults and name-calling and to some point, western/American bashing) until I guess some events must have caused the debate to become irrelevant like Kodansha translating and publishing MegaTokyo.

I don't know what other events or flashpoints have caused that debate to die down in the anime/manga community. But the OEL manga debate back then became the equivalent of the dub vs sub topic when I got deep into the fandom. I'm glad that debate is no longer relevant, but it brings back memories of my early day of my anime/manga fandom.
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AsleepBySunset



Joined: 07 Sep 2022
Posts: 221
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:22 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
This particular thread and topic brings back memories of me getting involved with OEL manga jumping the shark, if anyone was around in 2007/2008 you probably remember that ANN thread back in the day (I was still a new anime/manga fan back then).

But anyway, a lot has changed like Enurtol mentioned MegaTokyo later getting a Japanese translation. Also, we've seen Scott Pilgrim getting a anime adaptation. Hell even Korean webtoons and American comic book getting anime adaptation today, so should OEL manga be still considered as manga. Well, if you want to consider Shotaro Ishinomori's Zelda: A link to the past OEL manga as a manga (yes, it's a OEL manga given it was originally published in the US before it got translated and released into Japanese), then I wouldn't hold it against you. Let me quote Zelda Wikia section entry:

Zelda Fandom Wikia wrote:
Although often considered to be a manga, the comic was originally published in English in America by Nintendo Power. By modern day standards, it can be considered to be an original English-language manga, although that term did not exist when the comic was originally published. A Japanese edition was later released retaining the left-to-right formatting of the original American edition. In the Japanese edition, the text is oriented horizontally in a left-to-right format as well and the original sound effects are left untranslated.

The comic was re-released on May 5, 2015, compiled into a single volume and published by VIZ Media.


Also, what about the works of Eldo Yoshimitzu? They would be considered as manga by my eyes, but the problem is that both Gamma Draconis, and Ryuko they weren't published in Japan first, they were published in Europe before it got translated into English, and later "translated" into Japanese. The fact that it was published in Europe before it got a Japanese release kind of disqualify it from being recognized as a manga on sites like MAL, and Anilist. I'm not making this up, go search Ryuko or Gamma Draconis on MAL and Anilist and they're not even on their database despite being a manga (in black & white, and read from right to left like any manga). I want to remind you that MAL and Anilist has manhwa/webtoons, and manhua on their database but not Ryuko and Gamma Draconis from Eldo Yoshimizu.

So if anyone on here argue that OEL manga is not manga, so what does that make Eldo Yoshimizu's works? Manga, or not (because his works are not on MAL and Anilist database despite the fact that both of them read like a manga and the same MAL and Anilist also has Manhwa/webtoons and manhua in their database)?

Also, kudo for ANN staff for using Adam Warren's Dirty Pair. I wonder if those ever receive Japanese translation. I asked because on another thread, I brought up that IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog comic book got translated into Japanese in 2020 and it was so highly regarded in Japan, it caused Vol 1 of the Japanese version to get re-printed due to high demand in Japan. Japan is usually where foreign comic don't sell so well and yet IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog comic was able to succeed everyone's expectation.

It makes me wonder why did IDW's Sonic did so well in Japan when other comic book didn't managed to break into the Japanese mainstream market. IDW's Sonic is not the only American comic book that got a Japanese translation, I found out that IDW's Transformers comic have received Japanese translation too. I'm not sure about IDW's Godzilla. I wonder if any of the American/western comic book based on Japanese IPs/properties ever got translated into Japanese I mean did any of Udon's Street Fighter comic receive a Japanese translation & release over there. Does that include Udon's Darkstalkers comic series?

I really like to know if any western comic based on Japanese properties/IPs ever got translated into Japanese other then IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog.


If a liger is the hybrid of a lion and tiger, then maybe we could consider it a kind of tiger, and can consider it a kind of lion, and then if we can say a liger is both lion and a tiger, then maybe... tigers are lions! and lions are tigers!.

Please stop using edge cases to make ridiculous arguments about the definitions of words. I have nothing against works like Hollow Fields, but oel manga are not "honorary manga".
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13584
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 8:47 pm Reply with quote
To me, an OEL manga would be one that is not based off of an existing IP and the English language version is the Adam/Eve of that franchise or IP, so to speak. Under the Japanese definition of "manga" meaning "comic", then OEL manga really is manga.
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TheSeventhSense



Joined: 09 Mar 2013
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 3:03 am Reply with quote
"Is OEL Manga Really Manga?"

No, they're graphic novels. I like graphic novels. There is nothing wrong with reading graphic novels. They're just a different thing. Can we move on?
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14813
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 4:15 am Reply with quote
Murder, She wrote:

Even my cold and blackened heart can admit that it's rad as hell that there's a Sailor Moon-esque transformation sequence in the My Adventures with Superman series!


Latest ep also has Kara Zor-El / Supergirl looking like Android 18

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Maverynthia_X



Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 5:12 am Reply with quote
I just saw a post on CoHost talking about cultural appropriation and orientalism in "Wholesome Games" (like Kamaeru) and this is very much Orientalism (which yes is a type of racism).

It's not manga because it's not from Japan. It's not Manhwa because it's not from Korea. It's not Manha (is that right?) because it's not from China. (Also notice everyone wants their stuff to be MANGA and not either the Korean nor Chinese version of the same word)

What's wrong with calling your stuff "comics"? Is it because we have let the likes of Marvel and DC dictate was a "comic" looks like?
No we have to take a Japanese word and stick it on our English stuff because it's COOOOOOL and EXOTIC!!

Sometimes I hate when people go out of their way to "draw anime/manga style!" because... there.. isn't... really a one style. Just the "Big Eyes Small Mouth" which isn't even true when you get into yaoi styles (big hands, big mouths big-- anyways). Or the く style noses which.. again.. only really shows up in stuff that has a "quality for children" to it. (Not that it's FOR children. There's probably a French term that get my point across exactly.)
because you look at JoJo and.. there is no real big eyes.. no real small mouth and the noses aren't く at all. You can look at the anime Yami Shibai which has a new style every episode to see that there is not ONE "manga style". Hell take a look at Junji Ito's stuff.

Even then all of these BESM styles came from Disney in the first place as Osamu Tezuka was emulating Disney style.

So the only real reason people want their stuff to be "manga" is to feel that they are somehow "Japanese" which..... sometimes even living in Japan a number of years does not make you Japanese.
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