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This Week in Games - "Next stop, Hyrule!"


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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6087
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 12:40 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
We've all been there: the best part of playing a Zelda game is roaming around. Not delving into the temples, not chasing after specific goals—just roaming around, riding Epona, whacking baddies, and visiting your favorite locals. It's fishing at the local spot, it's admiring the attendant at the Bombchu Bowling Alley, and it's helping Anju get her cuccos back in their pen.


No racing the mailman only to find out the game won’t let you beat him just cause?
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juaifan



Joined: 20 Mar 2021
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 1:29 pm Reply with quote
I'm not into fighting games much and something about the art style for Idol Showdown is off to me. I'll stick with HoloCure for my Hololive fan game of choice. But I can appreciate the fact some FGC bros are really upset with Idol Showdown for some weird reason.
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DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1956
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2023 2:57 pm Reply with quote
juaifan wrote:
I'm not into fighting games much and something about the art style for Idol Showdown is off to me. I'll stick with HoloCure for my Hololive fan game of choice. But I can appreciate the fact some FGC bros are really upset with Idol Showdown for some weird reason.


I'm under the impression that most people would be annoyed playing against other people that vaguely know how to play and realizing how this game's offensive pressure is incredibly oppressive... which I'm still surprised at given that I would think that they'd make the game more casual friendly since I don't know how big the crossover between fighting game players and vtuber fans really is.

(I respect the direction though... the game is really fun)

If this is your first time picking up a fighting game to play against other people, you might nope out very quickly once you see how helpless it can get once the other person starts going.

Depending on the matchup, I can grind out the Kanata assist with Botan and then just grenade spam for a ton of chip damage, assuming the other person is actually patient enough to sit there through all of it and didn't eat one or two of them while trying to escape. There are ways to deal with it, but it's very specific and a lot of the time you're just holding that once it's set up.

I would think most people probably don't like playing games where you don't get a turn for long periods of time.

Anyway, I watched Sajam and Max play it and they were pretty cool with it.

The only vague drama I hear about is Japanese players having to use code words to describe the game's inherent grime for fear of offending random Japanese vtuber fans that would dogpile them on stream even though they don't really mean offense against the actual vtuber personalities.

But when you see how long hitstun lasts from just vaguely touching things, you can't help but kind of reel back in your chair.
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Ebb1993



Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 118
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 5:22 am Reply with quote
Who ISN’T still reeling from the entire Mega Man Legends 3 fiasco?
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4457
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 10:50 am Reply with quote
You know how massive the Zelda release is? The New York Times weekend newsletter (generally a summary of cultural events and important stories from during the week) had the Tears of the Kingdom release was the top story. Even for the cultural section, that’s massive.

I do find it fascinating the conversations around the game and its lore, which the article put into perspective. Zelda hasn’t reached Tolkien levels of lore and world building yet, but it’s getting closer as the decades go on.
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 539
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:

I do find it fascinating the conversations around the game and its lore, which the article put into perspective. Zelda hasn’t reached Tolkien levels of lore and world building yet, but it’s getting closer as the decades go on.


At the risk of being pedantic, I don't think Zelda will ever reach the same level of the Legendarium. Tolkien made a whole world and deeply considered stuff as tiny as how the languages developed and changed; stuff for Zelda is only really considered when the games need a new thing. The "Zelda Timeline™" wasn't made until Skyward Sword came out, because Nintendo really wanted to push it being the "prequel" for the Zelda series, for all the good that did 'em (turns out, nobody really cares where Ganon and the Master Sword came from). And while it's cool that TotK spoiler[continues to expand on the lore by referencing Demise and stuff], there's still a ton of other stuff that's just been left on the shelf because it's not involved with the Ganon/Zelda/Link dynamic. So screw you if you're invested in stuff like the origins of the Majora's Mask, Termina, Holodrum, Subrosia, Labrynna, the Oracles, the Picori, further details on Lorule, the remaining deities besides the Three Goddesses (remember how the Goddess of Time was a big deal in OoT and MM?), the Twili...

Ebb1993 wrote:
Who ISN’T still reeling from the entire Mega Man Legends 3 fiasco?


o/

I'll be honest, I was very bitter over how the gaming industry snubbed Battle Network, Mega Man Zero, Mega Man Star Force and Mega Man ZX for such a long time. So anytime people brought up how sad they were about Mega Man Legends 3 failing, I'd ask them how many copies of Mega Man Zero they'd bought (because it felt like only die-hard Mega Man fans cared about MMZ).

Nowadays? Yeah, it's a bummer, but other than being a high-profile cancellation... MML3 was still just a cancellation. For every MML3 canceled, imagine all the games we don't know about that get cancelled.
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AQuin1904



Joined: 13 Nov 2021
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2023 9:21 pm Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
I'll be honest, I was very bitter over how the gaming industry snubbed Battle Network, Mega Man Zero, Mega Man Star Force and Mega Man ZX for such a long time. So anytime people brought up how sad they were about Mega Man Legends 3 failing, I'd ask them how many copies of Mega Man Zero they'd bought (because it felt like only die-hard Mega Man fans cared about MMZ).

As much as I love MMZ to death (and own all the GBA carts), it's a really tough sell. Playing it on a dark original GBA screen when it first came out added a lot of frustration to games that felt designed for the clarity and ease of control that the X games had on SNES and PS1, and a bunch of core systems feel ill-considered (the weapon leveling that was basically just a time tax; the boss rewards locked behind a weirdly balanced ranking system that meant only hardcore repeat players would ever see them; the single-use unique powerups, etc.).

I always had the impression that Battle Network did well, although I know a lot of older fans maligned it for being too "kiddy" a la the Wind Waker hate at around the same time. I'm not sure how much crossover appeal it was ever going to have with fans of the platformer series, though. Both being named Megaman doesn't seem like it would help fans of either care about a totally different style of gameplay.

Following on that last point, while I agree that the frustration with MML3's cancellation got old, I have to wonder whether more people buying the other series would have made that much difference (or whether it's reasonable to expect the same group of people to care about all of them), considering Legends doesn't share gameplay, setting, or characters with any of them and is basically its own weird cult-classic PS1 thing.
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FinalVentCard
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Joined: 28 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 2:47 am Reply with quote
[quote="AQuin1904"]
FinalVentCard wrote:

Following on that last point, while I agree that the frustration with MML3's cancellation got old, I have to wonder whether more people buying the other series would have made that much difference (or whether it's reasonable to expect the same group of people to care about all of them), considering Legends doesn't share gameplay, setting, or characters with any of them and is basically its own weird cult-classic PS1 thing.


Legends is the logical ending to all of the Mega Man games; they introduce Elysium as a concept in Mega Man X, Mega Man Zero follows up on the idea when Dr. Weil devastates the world, and ZX shows it beginning as a society where Reploids and humans are indistinguishable. ZX advent shows it further, which is basically where the Synthetics and Carbons come in from Legends.
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AQuin1904



Joined: 13 Nov 2021
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 9:26 am Reply with quote
[quote="FinalVentCard"]
AQuin1904 wrote:
FinalVentCard wrote:

Following on that last point, while I agree that the frustration with MML3's cancellation got old, I have to wonder whether more people buying the other series would have made that much difference (or whether it's reasonable to expect the same group of people to care about all of them), considering Legends doesn't share gameplay, setting, or characters with any of them and is basically its own weird cult-classic PS1 thing.


Legends is the logical ending to all of the Mega Man games; they introduce Elysium as a concept in Mega Man X, Mega Man Zero follows up on the idea when Dr. Weil devastates the world, and ZX shows it beginning as a society where Reploids and humans are indistinguishable. ZX advent shows it further, which is basically where the Synthetics and Carbons come in from Legends.

Huh. I never put that together playing those as a kid, but that makes sense. I knew Zero followed X, but I wonder how many people who'd played Legends realized there was a connection and it wasn't just a reimagining (especially since I'm pretty sure Legends 1&2 came out before the GBA games and even the later X games).

I do also wonder how many people actually played to the end of Legends 2 and are waiting for a resolution, despite how often it comes up online. I never got the impression that it was especially popular or successful compared to X or Battle Network, although I wasn't old enough to have much context for when it first came out. I guess a lot of people could have discovered it on PS3, since iirc it was cheap on PSN, but I'd be surprised if it was a big hit there either.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4457
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 1:09 pm Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:


At the risk of being pedantic, I don't think Zelda will ever reach the same level of the Legendarium. Tolkien made a whole world and deeply considered stuff as tiny as how the languages developed and changed; stuff for Zelda is only really considered when the games need a new thing. The "Zelda Timeline™" wasn't made until Skyward Sword came out, because Nintendo really wanted to push it being the "prequel" for the Zelda series, for all the good that did 'em (turns out, nobody really cares where Ganon and the Master Sword came from). And while it's cool that TotK spoiler[continues to expand on the lore by referencing Demise and stuff], there's still a ton of other stuff that's just been left on the shelf because it's not involved with the Ganon/Zelda/Link dynamic. So screw you if you're invested in stuff like the origins of the Majora's Mask, Termina, Holodrum, Subrosia, Labrynna, the Oracles, the Picori, further details on Lorule, the remaining deities besides the Three Goddesses (remember how the Goddess of Time was a big deal in OoT and MM?), the Twili...


I wouldn’t worry too much, the article admits the same. But the idea of finding depth in these worlds and how that’s approached as an intellectual exercise was a very different way of viewing the material, which I found interesting.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6087
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Ebb1993 wrote:
Who ISN’T still reeling from the entire Mega Man Legends 3 fiasco?


Between those who never liked the games for not being their MegaMan or those who just accepted that all the petitions, boycotts, & vitriol thrown at Capcom & Inafune wasn’t going to change their minds?
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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 908
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 7:46 pm Reply with quote
AQuin1904 wrote:
I do also wonder how many people actually played to the end of Legends 2 and are waiting for a resolution, despite how often it comes up online.

I think Legends 2 is the one "cliffhanger" in the series I don't actually take too seriously. X8 ends with spoiler[Sigma deader than dead but Axl infected by something], ZX Advent ends with spoiler[the Biometals besides Model X and Model A missing], but also, if you beat it on hard, spoiler[Master Thomas taking his villain mask off in the wake of Albert's defeat]. Legends 2 ends with.... spoiler[Volnutt stuck on the moon, patiently waiting to be rescued?] Like, that's even more benign than the emotional cliffhanger of the first Gunvolt game's ending (which was never touched on again in the games that came after, and I'm still mad about it). Meanwhile, the Zero tetralogy, while a narrative masterpiece, ends in such a conclusive way that I kind of don't want any other sub-series to achieve.

There are plenty of interesting hooks left in the Mega Man verse to explore. but it's kind of like how even though Castlevania never did a story set in 1999, we already have enough surrounding context to fill in the blanks. There are just some scenes you have to... compartmentalize on a replay, that's all. Getting a real sequel that lets us put those questions to rest would be great, but at the same time, there's also a chance we may not like the answers.
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Vanadise



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 508
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 8:56 pm Reply with quote
Ebb1993 wrote:
Who ISN’T still reeling from the entire Mega Man Legends 3 fiasco?

I wouldn't say I'm reeling, but that basically ended me being a fan of Capcom. I didn't buy anything they developed or published for several years after that; I did eventually pick up Mega Man 8/9/10 and Great Ace Attorney... and I think that's it, pretty much nothing else they've produced has any appeal for me.

But anyway, more importantly, just like everybody else, I'm incredibly excited about the biggest launch of the month, the direct sequel to a beloved game that improves on the first one in every way: Fuga: Melodies of Steel 2.

... anybody? Anybody else excited to send their furry kids off to war in a sentient tank again?
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FinalVentCard
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Joined: 28 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2023 11:00 pm Reply with quote
wolf10 wrote:

There are plenty of interesting hooks left in the Mega Man verse to explore. but it's kind of like how even though Castlevania never did a story set in 1999, we already have enough surrounding context to fill in the blanks. There are just some scenes you have to... compartmentalize on a replay, that's all. Getting a real sequel that lets us put those questions to rest would be great, but at the same time, there's also a chance we may not like the answers.


Yeah, fans have a problem of wanting every "T" crossed and "i" dotted, and then complaining when they don't like the answers. I mean, once upon a time Star Wars fans loved the prospect of getting a Star Wars movie annually from Disney. Fans don't know how to leave enough alone.

Vanadise wrote:

But anyway, more importantly, just like everybody else, I'm incredibly excited about the biggest launch of the month, the direct sequel to a beloved game that improves on the first one in every way: Fuga: Melodies of Steel 2.

... anybody? Anybody else excited to send their furry kids off to war in a sentient tank again?


Aw darn, Fuga 2 released last week? And I didn't know? That's egg on my face. Sad
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Iron Maw



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 493
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2023 10:51 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The ESRB does point to there being some amount of sexual innuendo in Final Fantasy XVI, citing certain scenes where a character "[caresses] and [straddles] a man in bed." The trailers have already hinted at people boning (and from what we've seen, it's been between heterosexual partners). Square Enix has gone on the record that they're hoping for a "Game of Thrones"-esque tone with this new Final Fantasy, which has never sat well with me considering there's a way to make that work that I don't really trust many writers to achieve. "Being like Game of Thrones" just feels like a license to be an edgelord, in my eyes.


Should note that GoT is only one of he influences and the FFXVI team taking inspiration from Matsuno's works (Tactics Ogre, Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII) whom they are big fans of.

Frankly Matsuno's games are basically Japanese GoT, they are one of the best in genre so I don't see any real negatives to this. Yes they are fairly dark but change his stories fantastically written. FFXVI very well be a better realized FFXII.
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